Kuchma: contact group meets, Russia make demands

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2014/07/24 • News

Contacts with the eastern “separatists” take place on a regular basis through video-conferencing, Leonid Kuchma, the second president of Ukraine and a member of the contact group (to resolve the situation in the Donbas — Ed.),  told TSN on Wednesday, July 23. He confirmed that last week the contact group held negotiations on the admission of international missions to the crash site of the Boeing 777 in Tores.

In addition, Kuchma reported that the representatives of Russia and the separatists are not changing their positions and are not willing to compromise.

“We meet almost every day. People on the other side are like parrots: we are the Donetsk and Luhansk ‘people’s republics’ and we do not recognize anything else, they say. They are not the ones driving the compromise negotiations — it is Russia, in my view. They are demanding that, at a minimum, Russian be made a state language throughout all of Ukraine. They’re also demanding independence for each region — not the type of self-government that we are proposing in terms of more local power. What they want is federalization, and federalization for Ukraine means that after a while there will be no Ukraine at all,” Kuchma said.

As previously reported, Putin has declared that the conflict in the Donbas needs to move from the military phase to the “negotiation phase” with the terrorists and blamed the conflict for the downing of the Boeing 777.

Source: TSN

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  • Arctic_Slicer

    There really isn’t much point in negotiating with these guys. Just keep on with the ATO and finish moping these guys up. Once Horlivka, Donetsk and Luhansk are once again under Kyiv’s control these guys will be finished.

    • Donald Casavant

      I agree with you, however: It is not as easy as you think! House to house city fighting is the worst kind of warfare there is, just ask any senior military person. It is almost impossible to conduct such warfare without many civilian casualties. It is obvious that the Russian backed terrorist will place their firing position among innocent people and this will cause many innocent people to be killed when the ATO force attacks. The current Ukrainian ATO army with be forces to make a brutal decision; civilian deaths or the deaths of the ATO force themselves. No matter what choice the ATO makes it will be criticized as the wrong choice!

      • llewellynh

        The Israelis make phone calls and drop leaflets on residential areas in the Gaza strip to warn folks they ought to move out of the way because something bad is coming their way. It isn’t perfect but it is an attempt and they also put ambulances close by in order to help any who get hurt.

        And many, many Palestinians have moved out of the way so that worst case (other than being hit), their homes are damaged.

        At some point you have to bite the bullet.

        • Donald Casavant

          That only works if the Russian Terrorist allows the people to leave! I
          have read several accounts that stated they would not let the people
          leave the cities that were under attack by the ATO! In fact most people
          understand that without the civilians as a shield for the Russian Terrorist the ATO would go through these cities like “shit through a goose.

          • llewellynh

            Donald, do you have any idea of how many of those thugs are in eastern Ukraine?

          • Donald Casavant

            From what I have seen in different articles, I would estimate that are about 4000 Russian Terrorist, (people from Russian) and about 5000 Ukrainian criminals, drug addicts, alcoholics, and unemployed that Russia has hired. I have seen figures that claim that there are 10,000 Russian professional soldiers fighting in the Eastern part of Ukraine, but I have seen nothing to substantiate those numbers. I live in the Ukraine and I try and keep track of those thing!!

          • llewellynh

            I really appreciate that answer because I have been looking for for weeks. Those guys don’t look like professional anything: they are thugs.

            While it’s not a tiny number I think with some help in the way of supplies you could do just fine. It’s getting the west to get off the selfish dime.

          • Donald Casavant

            I do not think that anyone except Russia knows for sure how many people are fighting for the Russian Terrorists. Not many of the Russian “professionals” are ever seen on video!! The Russian Terrorists keep emptying the prisons and giving each prisoners a weapon, a bottle of Vodka, and points them to the combat front! These people are the fodder that are killed first while the Russian “professionals” run away and fight another day with a new group of castaways, prisoners, and derelicts.

          • llewellynh

            I think it’s arrogant to assume that prisoners with guns and vodka are going to follow orders or go where they are told. That won’t win Putin a war.

          • Donald Casavant

            They have a choice, do what they are told or die where they stand!

          • llewellynh

            Watching it makes it seem so chaotic that I question if this is going to be a long term solution for Russia.

            And some good news. The US military has finally admitted THEY have proof that the Russians are shooting through the border. Internationally that really is a no no.

            And I just saw Mark Rutte, the Prime Minister of the Netherlands and just hope he is given a more prominent role in all of this. He is strong and full of smarts and integrity and is determined to help one way or another. He is the best of the western bunch and no one much knew about him until this horror.

            And the thugs captured a CNN reporter last night so CNN has moved rapidly toward understanding things from your point of view. That is major good news because they really are the only tv station doing full blast coverage in the US and worldwide.

            Poroshenko has told them he is happy with western support: I like him but he should NOT be happy about the lackluster, serious support we should be giving you. Yats’ speech is worth reading over and over.

          • Donald Casavant

            Yats’ is the best of all the politicians in Ukraine. Poroshenko is an honest man and I respect him because he was with the Maidan Revolution from day one. If Maidan did not succeed, Poroshenko would have lost all his business and probably his life! I don’t know how he will be as a President. But I am giving him enough time before I say anything bad about the man. I think he will do well, but only time will tell. By the way I am a citizen of the USA, married
            to a Ukrainian national, living in a small city In the center of Ukraine.

          • llewellynh

            Lucky you because it looks like such a beautiful country.

            I want you to go to http://www.newrepublic.com and read an article written by a young dutch journalist who spent some time recently among those dead bodies. They only have about 6-8 articles and his last name will jump out at you as being dutch. It breaks your heart to read it but he may be onto the truth.

            I am also a US citizen though I was born in Canada and sort of wish I was there. But marriage does have something to do with where we end up!

            I was taken aback about Porochenko’s being an oligarch but he seems to be smart and has been trying. I agree with Yatz though that it is moving way too slowly and I’m not sure after watching that long trip to the last election that that being done again will speed things up.

            This whole thing is mind boggling because it seems as if people in the west have lost their moral compass and instead of thinking about wearing three sweaters this winter in order to send you folks some gas and oil, our leaders almost exclusively are looking at business stuff. You will probably know about the lend lease program from ww2 and boy would I like to see that resurrected overnight.

            The NYTimes which certainly is liberal, today had a large article about how Americans and almost no one else including the Administration are supporting Israel. It’s so hard to tell what the ordinary people want and the Russian propaganda machines were in overdrive until finally people in UK newspapers called them on it and still today make jokes about the Russian comments made under anglo saxon surnames. It has caught on in the US and the propaganda just isn’t working.

            The thugs in the east captured a CNN stringer last night and that formerly very pro administration world wide outlet is now all over the Russians. That can be very helpful because too few here really have much knowledge of Russian history – never mind Ukrainian. Folks will more rapidly get up to speed with CNN’s new tone which is much more honest though a bit uneducated. I wish they would hire some of those folks from UKRstream and Euromaidan so that better teachers would be on screen.

            And today’s viewing of another endless line of hearses in that immaculate country called the Netherlands had to drive home the extreme contrast between civilized behavior versus that of the thugs. It was something to watch though the tears just kept coming.

          • Russ

            Donald do you feel you’re in any danger being a US citizen or are you far enough away from the bad guys.

          • Donald Casavant

            Russ,
            I do not believe that anyone in this country is “safe.” I honestly believe that after the Russian
            Terrorist in Donbas and Luhansk have been crushed by the Ukrainian ATO, the terrorist
            that survive will scatter across the country in ones and twos to start a terror
            war of random murders and acts of sabotage against the infrastructure of the
            country. The Russian Terrorists have
            shown to be equal opportunity killers, they don’t care what your nationality
            is, they kill, torture, and kidnap people of all nationalities! I live about 175 Klicks from the Eastern War
            zone and I feel safe for now.

        • Arctic_Slicer

          Ukraine should not emulate Israel’s tactics of murder, annexation and Occupation; Israel has for more in common with Russia than Ukraine.

          • llewellynh

            I wasn’t suggesting that but I do think at some point if a country is being bombarded defensive actions unfortunately have to take place.

            None of this should go on but self preservation is built into human beings.

          • Arctic_Slicer

            If Israel would end it’s illegal occupation and blockade of Palestinian territories there would be no need for “defensive actions”.

      • Russ

        It’s probably a no-win situation as long as Russia is supporting the rebels (or is it the rebels supporting Russia?). If Ukraine makes gains, the Russians increase their support to counter it.

        • Donald Casavant

          Russ, I think you are correct. Right now it is a tit for tat situation. Ukraine must, and I really mean MUST, seal the border between the two countries. Without controlling the border, Russia can continue to send new terrorist and more and more equipment to foil any advance that the Ukrainian ATO makes!

          • llewellynh

            And it would be beyond helpful if the US and others donated some drones to help police that border. Night vision cameras would be a big help.

          • Donald Casavant

            I would be very surprised if the US didn’t have drones flying all over Ukraine!

          • llewellynh

            I really hope you are right and that hundreds more are sent. There seems to be a great reluctance to live up to the agreement we made in 1995 to protect you forever. And Bill Clinton was the US President that participated with Tony Blair.

            Reporters ought to be going after those two and yet they remain untouched.

          • llewellynh

            And I am siting here watching hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse after hearse go by on my television screen. Hundreds of dead innocent people.

            The Dutch should be selected to lead the way toward helping you.

    • Jacks Channel

      I agree. Putin’s claims are baseless. Hes crazy! He clearly has lost his mind. I wonder if Putin remembers the American Civil War? You don’t get your way in dividing up a country just because you disagree. A countries constitution, written by the people, has the final word over its boundaries. Its the same in Ukraine. Just because a lot of Russians live in Eastern Ukraine doesn’t mean anything at all.

      Oh, and mr. Putin, the “Banderites” don’t exist. So you have no case against Ukraine whatsoever. I feel sorry for you. You are a little man.

  • sandy miller

    Artic_Slicer is the problem really the terrorists or Putins regime? Russia had a council meeting yesterday today. It looks like they’ve decided to invade Ukraine if they don’t get what they want.

    • Russ

      I think in the end, Putin will loose but maybe not before he’s done a lot of damage. Sounds familiar doesn’t it.

      • llewellynh

        Even if he “wins,” what does he get? A country filled with people who at this point hate him. It’s very expensive to rule an unruly people and that is what he would “win.” Crimea was stolen in a flash but the spirit of Maidan probably will live forever in Ukraine’s future history. They are very different situations at this point.

    • llewellynh

      The people sitting at that meeting did not look happy and I wonder just how much sincere support Putin has. Sure, anyone who works for him is very afraid of him but his behavior is endangering Russians in so many ways and the others may be more aware of that than Putin is.

    • Arctic_Slicer

      They are all one and the same since the terrorists directly work for Putin’s regime and Putin himself is best described as a terrorist that “wears a suit and tie”.

  • Robert Drake

    I do not know why they lost the opportunity early on to create an international buffer zone with international peace keepers that would occupy the area between Russia and the two cities in rebellion. It would have stemmed the flow of arms, could have stopped the necessity of the ATO, and could act as the basis for a negotiation or at least the keeping of polling stations open in May…

    You need lots and lots of people that the Russians cannot kill for fun, and the reaction to the tragedy of the MH17 is some proof that the world is not going to allow the Russians to shoot others besides Ukrainians. (which is already a very very sad state of affairs that they would want to kill Ukrainians for the simply act of throwing off the looting of Yanukovich… who the Russians, even in their kleptocratic might, should consider arresting themselves… he is a grotesque and despicable thief that Russia is mistaken to continue to support.)